Compound models about thrive HOT 78 CLOSED

According to NickTheNick in his solution A on this page http://thrivegame.forum-free.ca/t997p150-microbial-compounds-and-organelles sunlight isn't a compound, so we shouldn't need a model for that!

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It is in the planned prototype. As far as I know, no one has spelled out how sunlight is to be handled in the microbe stage for the purpose of photosynthesis organelles. Just making it omnipresent sounds really boring.

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I remember a discussion about sun patches spread across the map... Some places that are lighted where you need to be for photosynthesis to occur or occur at a better rate. I think it would add an interesting mechanic. The spots could have different intensity but, I'm not really sure about the lightning system we have access to.

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That's pretty much what I had in mind when I added sunlight to the prototype's compound list. But instead of adding a new system for managing those "sunny areas", we just spawn short-lived particles in this area. We can implement that with the existing systems without too much trouble.

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The current model basically assumes that light exists all across the environment. However, a procedural map determines where the intensities of the light are higher or lower, ranging from 0%-100% intensity. The intensity of sunlight at any given point directly affects the speed at which chloroplasts process in that point. A chloroplast in a point of 100% light intensity will operate at 100% speed, while one in a 0% point will operate at 0% speed. This would be achieved through a perlin noise-map. However, ~scio and I do not know how complicated this will be to code, so go with whatever is optimal for this first release.

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The perlin noise isn't too hard, I already worked with that. Displaying the light in a nice way, is another story and I'm not sure.

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There doesn't need to be anything fancy like beams of light filtering through the water, but just something like areas of lower intensity light being darker than areas of higher intensity. However, I think areas of lower intensity light should not be pitch black, that would just look strange. I think 75% brightness in areas with 0% light and 100% brightness in areas with 100% light would be a good range, with the appropriate increments in between. However, this is just my suggestion for the optimal scenario. Go with whatever solution you guys think is best for now.

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What would they look like?

from thrive.

What would they look like?

They could look like molecules. But feel free to make them look whatever you like. If you have an idea (even only for one compound), make some sketches and post them either here or on the forum.

from thrive.

I can have sprites for all of these up soon. I also have plenty of other compound sprites you will need for later versions.

Ok, all of the sprites I have for GUI/compound purposes are in this album:

http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/sciocont/library/CellstageSprites

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Awesome! They look great! :) I'll try and add them tomorrow, but if i don't succeed Nimbal will do it soon!

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I have made one model, just so we know we're all talking about the same thing, so here is an ATP model based on sciocont's artwork:

Download Link for model: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/137682043/ATP.rar

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Excellent, I'll add this. What is the difference between the two models in there?

EDIT: Oh btw, can you by any chance convert it to a .mesh file? If not then try to ask for help on the forums, I've previously attempted converting but without luck.

EDIT2: I managed to export the model and implement them, however it treats each of the three balls as three seperate models, when it should just make one model. This must be a blender option somehow, I'll try and look at it, but if you know how it's done let me know!

EDIT3: Everything seems to work now, had to select the three objects (no easy task) and ctrl-J to merge in blender :)

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I have made two C02's one that was just given a crimson like material and the another which was textured with the sprite sciocont made.

Material:

Texture:

They are both the same size.

Download link for both of the models: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/137682043/CO2.rar

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I have made a Glucose model:

Download link for the model: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/137682043/Glucose.rar

Hope it's good :)

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I have made an Oxytoxy model:

Download link for the model: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/137682043/Oxytoxy.rar

Hope this helps!

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Looks awesome, while they may not be final (i can't make that judgement call) they'll work really well for now atleast! :)

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Thanks

from thrive.

Hrmm, here's how they look in game: http://i.imgur.com/WVk6i3B.png
The materials aren't exported properly (probably a conversion problem of mine) which i didn't discover yesterday because it defaults to something quite similar to ATP anyway. Also looks like we need a rotation of the three new models, which would be more difficult to do in the engine. Scaling i can adjust as needed.
I'm curious why you have a .blend, .blend1 and .blend2 files?

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Also, when you fix the rotation issue, see if you can lower he polycount. For instance, the CO2 and glucose models are prisms: they don't need to be. They just need to be one plane with the right shape and texture (a "billboard"). The same for the oxytoxy.

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Are you absolutely sure sciocont? Last i heard the idea of using billboards were just as a temporary solution until real models were avaliable.

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Using billboards is a temporary solution until we move to compound clouds
based on fluid dynamics.

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 12:52 PM, jjonj [email protected] wrote:

Are you absolutely sure sciocont? Last i heard the idea of using
billboards were just as a temporary solution until real models were
avaliable.

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com//issues/78#issuecomment-31361402
.

from thrive.

I thought the .blend1 and .blend 2 files were important xD and how will I rotate the models, like into what direction? And by billboard do you guys mean that I will turn it into like a 2d Model?

from thrive.

Rotate them 90 degrees around their x or z axes (or whichever axes are not perpendicular to their top face). You can see in the pictures that they're on their side.
Also, you might want to try exporting them in some format OGRE can deal with better. I think .x and .mesh files are OGRE's preferred formats.

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I've been doing the conversion for tjblazer (not trivial to get to working) however i don't get the correct materials, which i think is a problem with my way of converting.

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I found a way to export to .mesh http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Complete+Guide%3A+Exporting+Blender+To+Ogre but sadly it doesn't work with my version of blender, Is this the method you're using?

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Nope, I've been using http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=61485 and http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=OgreXmlConverter works with the new version of blender it seems (however still have the material issue)

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I found another way that works with my version, haven't tried it yet but I read that it exports materials too: http://choorucode.com/2013/10/23/how-to-convert-from-blender-to-ogre-format/

Here's the download link: https://bitbucket.org/MindCalamity/blender2ogre

Edit 1: Should I just post the rotated models instead and have you export them?

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I have edited the models, here is the download link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/137682043/C02%2C%20Glucose%20and%20Oxytoxy%20Billboards.rar

and pics:

I couldn't figure out how to install one of the parts for the exporter so I couldn't export it.

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I'm not exactly sure what kind of models are needed for this demo but tried to make an ATP model, if someone can fix the particle emitter that would be great

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ouee3prkj20k3sx/ATP.rar

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Awesome Job! You can use this (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/sciocont/library/CellstageSprites) as a reference for making the models.

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Thanks tjblazer85, last time i saw those they were intended as icons or something, was it decided to be used as models too?

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I think he just means that the icons should look like the models so it's a good reference! :)

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I'm not exactly sure what kind of models are needed for this demo

Compounds are whats needed for now, and it isn't really a demo, its the real deal with incremental releases along the way!

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jjonj have you figured out why the materials are like that?

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For now we will use 2D billboards of the icons for each compound. This is a
placeholder until we implement dynamic clouds for compounds in the water,
because even at this scale individual particles would be so small that they
would resemble clouds, like ink, when in water. Different compounds would
have differently coloured and textured clouds, but till then we will use
sprites.

On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 7:41 PM, tjblazer85 [email protected] wrote:

jjonj have you figured out why the materials are like that?

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com//issues/78#issuecomment-31570525
.

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He wasn't asking about that, NickTheNick, but useful to get confirmation on that anyway :)

No i haven't tjblazer but i think nimbal will be able to help once he finishes the deadline at his work, he was there when the original models were converted! Until then we can just use the orange versions or leave models alone!

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I know I was answering Tritium from earlier.

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Are there going to be any other models besides these for the microbe stage?

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Probably for organelles yeah, but atm I dont have an overview

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Was the picture for Reproductase created already or should I give it a try?

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It is.

On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 9:15 PM, TheCreator-- [email protected]:

Was the picture for Reproductase created already or should I give it a try?

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com//issues/78#issuecomment-31624922
.

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What about flagellum? I searched the forums a bit but couldn't find any pictures or mentions if it has been done yet.

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The flagellum is not a compound. Discussion on it should be restricted to
organelle-specific threads.

On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 11:26 PM, TheCreator-- [email protected]:

What about flagellum? I searched the forums a bit but couldn't find any
pictures or mentions if it has been done yet.

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com//issues/78#issuecomment-31806910
.

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So what assets are left? Do we have all the art we need for the next release of the Microbe Stage?

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Maybe just some sort of wave thingeys and/or bubbles to show the direction and force of the tides (not sure if it's needed for the next realese). And the compound models.

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Some generic model for a particle emitter perhaps, the molecule model seems a bit wierd for that, but it's not permanent either way, so it's not very important. Otherwise i think were ok.

Things are a bit slow these days, as Nimbal is still working on his work deadline and my exams have started and are running the next two weeks.

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With a particle emitter, do you mean like a cube/sphere in which the particles'll be spawned?

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More like; from which the particles are spawned. Atm we are just using the blue molecule model!

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Ok. What should it look like?

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For an oxygen emitter I was thinking we could have a bubble or maybe a small seaweed. Nitrogen could come from something that looks like a sea vent, same for co2.

from thrive.

Don't worry about compound emitters, worry about refinign organelles. We
don't need generation upon generation of placeholder models. The compound
emitters will eventually be completely absent; therefore there is no point
in refining them further.

On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 10:30 AM, TheCreator-- [email protected]:

For an oxygen emitter I was thinking we could have a bubble or maybe a
small seaweed. Nitrogen could come from something that looks like a sea
vent, same for co2.

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com//issues/78#issuecomment-32377913
.

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Ok

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Sorry guys but I'm confused, are we still going to make models for the compounds?

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I think the flat ones we have now will do fine :) Just need to figure out the proper conversion method

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Ok

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I was looking through some of the issues here and in this one: #75
I have found Nimbal's way to convert files!
Here's the link that was provided: http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=65993

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Very nice, good find! It seems that I'll have to compile this myself on linux which is not in my comfort zone but It should just take me a little time to figure out.

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After attempting to compile for a couple of hours, i gave up and actually found a compiled version that nimbal had linked (and I missed -.-). However it reports that it can't convert the files. I tried both yours and TritiumHs models. The log doesn't provide any insightful information as to what the error could be.
EDIT: So the next logical step was obviously to try to convert the old blend files we've been using, and it fails on those too, hrmm.
EDIT2: It works! I tried opening your original glucose model in blender, converted it from blender to 3ds and used the conversion tool on the 3ds file. It still reports an error but it actually produced the mesh and material files and they work in-game! I'll work on implementing them soon!

from thrive.

Btw it seems we need a model for oxygen

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That's awesome!

I thought that Oxygen didn't need a model?

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Oh I guess that's because we'll just use the existing model, right!

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I... can't reproduce my success, I still have the working model from yesterday but i can't do it again on the same or any other model. This is really wierd.

from thrive.

Okay, I spent a lot of time with different converters and then started actually looking into the file formats themselves and I pretty much have everything but the blender aspects figured out. I can kinda get the models to work now but there are some things that i don't quite understand about the .blend files.
First of all, all i want is a single .blend file with everything needed packed into it, I don't need any png textures or anything like that, which you have been including in some of the zip files. If you prefer them in there for your own sake, thats a-okay, just know that i dont need them for anything.

Turns out that the above total BS. It does try to use the png texture when i tried putting it in there for oxytoxy, however only the material for the square surface (see below) seems to want to use it, tried adding it to the model itself in the material file, but that didn't look right at all.

Secondly, what are the flat square surfaces you put behind of some of the models? They are on Glucose and Oxytoxy but not on ATP and CO2, they show up in-game and look weird :P
Finally, I'm a total newbie to blender, but when i open your files in my blender, what i see is often not what you show on the pictures you post here.
The way i watch the models is I open the .blend files with blender, and under the render tab, i try both "Render image" and "OpenGL render image",
For Glucose, ATP and CO2 in 3D everything is good, I see exactly what you show in the picture and it is the same that i see in-game.
For the flat material version of CO2 I just see a blank window.
For the flat texture version of CO2 I get the model but with a screaming pink texture/material instead of what you show in the image.
For 3d version of Oxytoxy I get either a grey model (no texture/material) if i view without openGL and a screaming pink if i view with openGL. In-game it looks like it has no material as well.
Flat version of glucose i haven't tested in-game but it looks fine in blender.

It seems like the advanced materials you have attempted (such as co2 material and oxytoxy) just show up as missing textures in blender for me. Are you sure you are packaging them correctly in the .blend files or am i perhaps doing something wrong? (I imagine you can verify this by trying to open the .blend files you have uploaded, yourself, and see if you can see the advanced materials)

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If you see pink when you render that means that the person who made the mesh did not save the textures in the blend file.

from thrive.

When I started to make Glucose and Oxytoxy, I decided to use the sprites that sciocont made as guideline and I imported them in as planes, I accidentaly left them in the files, you can delete them. I will also look into the problem with the materials and textures.

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Awesome :)

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Everything is fine except for the Oxytoxy which dosen't have the correct texture because I don't think I put the texture file in the Winrar.

from thrive.

Could you upload a zip version without the extra surfaces and fixed textures? Either 3D ones (preferably rotated correctly like the billboard counterparts). Or the billboard versions with ATP included.

Personally I like the 3D models better and we won't actually be using billboards for now (no reason to change what we already have working).

from thrive.

Sorry for the late reply I have been busy with school but now I have some time. Which ones should I give you? The Billboard or 3D models?

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I'd prefer the 3D models correctly rotated :)

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Ok I'll get to it!

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I double checked the files, once before i put it in the folder and another time when It was in the folder.
Here's the download link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/137682043/ATP%2C%20CO2%2C%20Glucose%20and%20Oxytoxy.RAR

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Great! I'll have a look at this later today

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Okay i got them into the game and they look great! Here you can see them in action: http://i.imgur.com/lts2M2D.png
I will scale them correctly before finishing the issue :)
Three things however...
First of all, I couldn't get the new CO2 models to convert, neither the material or the textured version, the conversion tool just refused to do anything with them (not even a log file like I've gotten every other failed attempt). What i used in the picture here is your old incorrectly rotated model which converts fine. Can you identify anything to you did differently with the co2 ones causing this issue? If not, the old model works well enough :)
Secondly the ambient lighting of all of these latest materials have had the value 0 0 0 1, which make them very very dark, i simply changed the ambient lighting to be equal to the values of diffuse lighting (0.20511 0.64 0.05015 1 for glucose) and that make them display properly as you see in the image linked. Your previous models have not had this issue
Thirdly, during all the conversions until now, the tool as posted that there was an error with the conversion, but the conversion has worked anyway. However, for your new oxytoxy model it did not post an error at all, it even displayed the model in the tool! Did you change anything specifically for oxytoxy?

from thrive.

I didn't do anything different, I just rotated the 3D models 90 degress on the x axis and then I just removed the image planes in the Glucose and Oxytoxy models. I have no idea why the CO2 models wont convert though, I didn't change anything there besides the rotation but as long as we got a few working we've made some progress and that is awesome! :)

from thrive.

Strange, since a couple of things have seem to changed. Anyway I will just use the current models then and get them merged!

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Ok cool.

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