Estimated time shorter about klipper_estimator HOT 16 CLOSED

Update:
Because I've configure SuperSlicer to
machine_limits_usage => time_estimate_only
The slicers speed parameters did not influence the gcode and so they should not influence the print time or the klipper_estimator calculatuon.

from klipper_estimator.

As the limits in printer settings seam to be irrelevant - here are my print settings -> speed settings:

I know you can also see them in my uploaded gcode, but maybe the screenshot makes them easier to analyze.

The configured travel speed of 700mm/s in slicer will be limited by the klipper/server side max velocity setting of 500mm/s
But I think the maximum travel speed is not reached on this small test part because the travel acceleration of 7500mm/s^2 is limiting it.

from klipper_estimator.

Hi!

Input shaper and pressure advance don't affect print time, as they are calculated on the planned output (the part klipper_estimator replicates).

I'll take a look tomorrow when I'm back home, thanks for a very thorough report :)

Can you send your print start macro as well?

If you could perform another test run and pay special attention to when the print time starts counting, that'd be very useful. In Fluidd with my own settings the total time includes heating, while "actual time" always matches the estimated time + 20 seconds (prime line etc).

Best regards
Lasse

from klipper_estimator.

Hello Lasse,

I'm using MainsalOS and the print time is staying at 0:00 until the actual print starts.
The heating process is part of my print start code and excluded from the actual print time.

In SuperSlicers 'Printer Settings' ->'Custom G-code' I have activated the checkbox 'Only custom Start G-code':

So the heating is not part of the Slicers Start G-Code.

As you can see in the picture my Slicers Start G-Code is:

PRINT_START EXTRUDER=[first_layer_temperature] BED=[first_layer_bed_temperature]
G90 ; use absolute coordinates
M83 ; use relative distances for extrusion

My Klipper PRINT_START macro looks like this:

[gcode_macro PRINT_START]
#   Use PRINT_START for the slicer starting script - please customise for your slicer of choice
gcode:
    {% set H = params.EXTRUDER|default(printer.save_variables.variables.default_hotend_temp)|float %}
    {% set B = params.BED|default(printer.save_variables.variables.default_bed_temp)|float %}
    G32 H{H} B{B} N                ; home all axes and level gantry and do not cool down afterwards
    G90                            ; absolut positioning
    G92 E0 ; Zero extruder
    MSG MSG="Starting print ..."

MSG is just a small macro of mine reporting the text as M117 and M118:

[gcode_macro MSG]
gcode:
  {% if 'MSG' in params %}
    M117 {params.MSG}
    M118 {params.MSG}
  {% endif %}

The actual heat-up is handled in my G32 macro as I need to have a heated nozzle for a good reading of the Z-Endstop (coll.: 'sex bolt') which is activated with the nozzle. Here is my G32 macro:

[gcode_macro G32]
gcode:
    {% set H = params.H|default(printer.save_variables.variables.default_hotend_temp)|float %}
    {% set B = params.B|default(printer.save_variables.variables.default_bed_temp)|float %}
    {% set X = params.X|default(printer.save_variables.variables.park_x)|float %}
    {% set Y = params.Y|default(printer.save_variables.variables.park_y)|float %}
    {% set Z = params.Z|default(printer.save_variables.variables.park_z)|float %}
    {% set prevHotendTemp = printer.extruder.target|float %}
    {% set prevBedTemp = printer.heater_bed.target|float %}
    MSG MSG="Start heating bed to {B}C"
    M140 S{B} ; start heating bed
    {% if printer.configfile.settings.bed_mesh is defined %}
      BED_MESH_CLEAR
    {% endif %}

    MSG MSG="Homing axis if not homed jet"
    CG28 ; Home axis which have not been homed jet

    MSG MSG="Wipe Nozzle"
    #Sexbolt position: 233,359
    G1 X245 Y359 F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_x.homing_speed|float * 60}
    G1 Z0 F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_z.homing_speed|float * 60}
    G1 X245 Y345 F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_x.homing_speed|float * 60 // 2}

    MSG MSG="Leveling Gantry"
    QUAD_GANTRY_LEVEL

    MSG MSG="Homing X and Y axis"
    G28 X Y; Home X and Y axis again

    MSG MSG="Parking extruder X{X} Y{Y} Z{Z}"
    G90
    G92 E0 ; Zero extruder
    G1 X{X} Y{Y} Z{Z} F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_x.homing_speed|float * 60}

    {% if params.N is defined %}  
      MSG MSG="Wait for heating bed to {B}C"
      M190 S{B}
    {% endif %}

    MSG MSG="Wait for heating hotend to {H}C"
    M109 S{H}
    
    G92 E0 ; Zero extruder
    G1 E10.0 F{printer.save_variables.variables.default_retraction_speed|float // 5}
    G92 E0 ; Zero extruder

    MSG MSG="Wiping nozzle"
    G1 Z0 F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_z.homing_speed|float * 60}
    G1 X245 Y359 F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_x.homing_speed|float * 60 // 2}
    G1 X350 Y359 F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_x.homing_speed|float * 60 // 2}

    MSG MSG="Homing Z axis with heated nozzle"
    G28 Z; Home Z axis again
    
    MSG MSG="Wiping nozzle"
    G1 X245 Y359 F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_x.homing_speed|float * 60 // 2}
    G1 Z0 F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_z.homing_speed|float * 60}
    G1 X350 Y359 F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_x.homing_speed|float * 60 // 2}
    G1 Z5 F{printer.configfile.settings.stepper_z.homing_speed|float * 60}

    {% if params.N is not defined %}
      MSG MSG="Setting Bed Temp to {prevBedTemp}C"
      M140 S{prevBedTemp}            ; return to previous bed temp
      MSG MSG="Setting Hotend Temp to {prevHotendTemp}C"
      M104 S{prevHotendTemp}         ; return to previous hotend temp
    {% endif %}

    G90 ; activate Absolute Positioniing
    G92 E0 ; Zero extruder
    MSG MSG="G32 done"

The CG28 macro is only a conditional G28 and only homes the axis which have not been homed jet:

[gcode_macro CG28]
description: Conditional G28 (home if not already homed)
gcode:
    {% if params.X is defined %}
      {% set X = params.X|float %}
      {% set homeX = True %}
    {% else %}
      {% set homeX = False %}
    {% endif %}
    {% if params.Y is defined %}
      {% set Y = params.Y|float %}
      {% set homeY = True %}
	{% else %}
      {% set homeY = False %}
	{% endif %}
    {% if params.Z is defined %}
      {% set Z = params.Z|float %}
      {% set homeZ = True %}
	{% else %}
      {% set homeZ = False %}
	{% endif %}
    {% if not homeX and not homeY and not homeZ  %}
      {% set homeX = True %}
      {% set homeY = True %}
      {% set homeZ = True %}
	{% endif %}
    {% if homeX and "x" in printer.toolhead.homed_axes %}
      {% set homeX = False %}
    {% endif %}
    {% if homeY and "y" in printer.toolhead.homed_axes %}
      {% set homeY = False %}
    {% endif %}
    {% if homeZ and "z" in printer.toolhead.homed_axes %}
      {% set homeZ = False %}
    {% endif %}
    {% if homeX and homeY %}
      G28 X Y
    {%elif homeX %}
      G28 X
    {%elif homeY %}
      G28 Y
    {% endif %}
    {% if homeZ %}
      G28 Z
    {% endif %}

Please do not blame be for wring bad macro code. I'm pretty new to Klipper and so these are the first Klipper macros I ever wrote.

Kind regards,
Thomas

from klipper_estimator.

Forgot to mention: On this printer I do not use a prime line and go with a skirt instead. As the skirt is part of the gcode the slicer produces the time printing it is part of the counted print time.

The G32 macro parts which I call 'Wiping nozzle' moves the nozzle over a bras brush I have installed behind the print bed next to the se bolt.

from klipper_estimator.

The print I've started this afternoon is a longer one. The gcode got processed by klipper_estimator as SuperSlicer postprocess before uploading to the printer.

So you can see klipper_estimator estimated 5h 46m 38s of print time.
SuperSlicer estimated 5h 20m.
Currently the print is at 73% and took already 6h 4m 54s.

So something is completely wrong with my setup.

Here is the gcode I'm currently printing:
PrinterSideHandleLeft-89.1711g-5h20m.gcode.zip

The Klipper side dump-config is unchanged to the one from above.

The print settings speed I've pushed a little further to:

The machine limits are now updated and sent to the gcode:

Kind regards,
Thomas

from klipper_estimator.

Hi!

Something is definitely fishy, but I can't really figure out what could be causing it.

I just ran the gcode you sent me originally, and with a (slightly modified from my normal config), Klipper batch mode gives me:

INFO:root:Exiting (print time 1681.936s)

Which is 28m1.936s
While estimator gives me:

Sequences:
 Run 0:
  Total moves:                 115770
  Total distance:              105424.253mm
  Total extrude distance:      2513.900mm
  Minimal time:                27m59.361s (1679.361s)
  Total print move time:       23m4.066s (1384.066s)
  Total extrude-only time:     1m34.173s (94.173s)
  Total travel time:           3m21.122s (201.122s)
  Average flow:                3.601 mm³/s
  Average flow (output only):  4.369 mm³/s
  Phases:
   Acceleration:               6m43.394s
   Cruise:                     14m24.943s
   Deceleration:               6m51.023s

So a very slight discrepancy here, but I'm not sure that's real(Klipper does some other stuff around starting and stopping the toolhead that could explain it, I need to verify moves later).

Best regards,
Lasse

from klipper_estimator.

Hi!

I was able to verify the move sequence with my own config, though there was a small discrepancy caused by a missing lookahead offset(I've pushed an update for that).

So I have to admit, right now I'm not sure where to look :(

Best regards,
Lasse

from klipper_estimator.

Hello Lasse,

Thank you for the time you already spend analyzing it!

The second print finally took 7h 42m 32s while klipper_estimator estimated 5h 46m 38s.

This is really a huge difference and makes the information in the KlipperScreen an in the gcode overview list a little useless.
There has to be something in my configuration which drives the calculation nuts.

Unfortunately I'm totally new to klipper and can not support you in any way.
In Marlin when linear advance was enabled there was a lot of retraction and unretraction work going on and the acceleration of the E-axis was typically the limiting factor, which extremely slowed down the print progress and pushed the resulting print time far from the slicers estimations. I do not know how pressure advance is working compared to linear advance and so I can not project my knowledge here. I just read very often that linear advance in Marlin and pressure advance in klipper have the same goal of keeping the pressure linear in the nozzle and avoiding over-extraction at the end of an extraction.
As this slightly modified Voron 2.4 printer has a direct drive Galileo 1.5 extruder the compensation pressure advance has to manage is not huge. My relevant settings in printer.cfg for the extruder are:

max_extrude_only_velocity: 60
max_extrude_only_accel: 600 
pressure_advance: 0.050 # 0.1
pressure_advance_smooth_time: 0.02

Because of torque problems and lost steps on high speed prints I replaced my mighty LDO-36STH20-1004AH stepper with an Fysetc G36HSY4407-6D-1200A stepper which can push the filament via the 7.5:1 ratio of the galileo extruder with much lower hotend temperatures that the LDO-36STH20-1004AH was able to handle with the same gear box. I know that in theory the LDO stepper has a much better datasheet, can handle more current, more velocity and even more acceleration. I tried 4 of those LDO steppers but ended up using the one from Fysetc.

Are you only using the data showed in dump-config to feed your klipper based estimation or are you fetching further information via moonraker API for feeding your algorithm?

Did I understand you right, that you are not expecting pressure advance to slow down the build?

Kind regards,
Thomas

from klipper_estimator.

Hi Thomas!

Pressure advance and input shaper in Klipper are implemented in the itersolver step, where trapezoidal planning moves are turned into actual steps. This step basically gets "ramps" with exact start and ending times, and so it can't affect the print time. Consequently, klipper_estimator doesn't implement it.

Printing in Klipper is fully "open loop": a path is generated and the machine is asked to execute it, but there's no feedback that can change the total time. This is also why klipper_estimator can be accurate down to the millisecond(as you can see from my example screenshot).

I've been looking over the code and I can't find anything that jumps out as being settable in Klipper but not in the tool.

Can you send me your full printer config, and then I will go over and verify that everything relevant is correctly read by klipper_estimator. If your config is multiple files you can either zip it, or, probably easier, just copy it from the top of your klippy.log. Klipper outputs the loaded config at the top when it starts up.

Best regards,
Lasse

from klipper_estimator.

Hello Lasse,

Thank you for explaining the differences in the way klipper is handling pressure advance compared to the marlin approach.

Here is the head of my klippy.log containing all the combined config lines:
klippy.log

Thank you so much for taking the time of analyzing it!

Kind regards,
Thomas

from klipper_estimator.

Hi Thomas!

Things just keep getting wierder. I just did a bench run with your config(after a few adaptations to get it to run with my MCU dictionary, single MCU, and no driver sections). I get:

• Klipper bench: 1730.658s
• Estimator: 1730.745s (1730.658s with 700mm/s limit)

I really can't figure out what would be causing your machine to be taking so much longer seemingly "out of the blue" :( Nothing jumps out at me when looking over the config. I'll have a think on what else could be going on here.

Best regards,
Lasse

from klipper_estimator.

Hi Lasse,

if the dictionary is making such a difference (I'm really green here on this field), is klipper_estimator able to fetch the dictionary from the Klipper host via API or how do you solve that the slicer side and the printer side dictionaries are in sync?

In the following post KevinOConnor provided a set of dictionaries for the different available MCUs:
Klipper "data dictionaries" for regression tests #1438

My printers main MCU is a BTT Octopus Pro 1.0 board which hast the stm32f446 MCU.
Because I do not know how import it ist that the dict files are up to date I add my dictionary from ~/klipper/out/klipper.dict here as well:
klipper_dict.zip

Keep my fingers crossed that my post here is of any help and not complete nonsense.

Kind regards,
Thomas

from klipper_estimator.

Hi Thomas!

The dictionary itself should have no impact on the final time, as it's merely used for emulating the MCU in benchmark mode. Indeed, re-running with the dictionary you just provided gives the exact same 1730.658s of time for me.

To confirm, I also just did a test with the other sample you sent me, and I get:

• Klipper bench: 20935.454s
• Estimator: 20869.598s

So here's actually a significant difference that I will look into. Still nothing like the hours difference you saw however.

I also noticed that the original config JSON has a velocity limit of 500 while your klippy.log shows 700.

Edit:

So I did a re-run with 700 mm/s in the config JSON, and with empty PRINT_START and PRINT_END macros(uncommented everything in them). This gives me:

• Bench: 20797.577s
• Estimator: 20797.577s

When re-running estimator on the original gcode with the 700 mm/s limit I get 1730.658s, exactly the same time as bench mode.

Best regards,
Lasse

from klipper_estimator.

Hi Lasse,

I'm still trying to figure out what is causing the slow downs compared to all estimations on my printer. I did try a lot (both slicer and Klipper wise) but have not found parameters which reduce the big estimation gap.

I just want to let you know that I'm sill searching for a reason and that I have not forgotten this ticket here.

Best regards,
Thomas

from klipper_estimator.

I'll close this for now, feel free to post any updates here and we'll re-open if relevant :)

Best regards
Lasse

from klipper_estimator.